More information but learning less about Social Security decisions and procedures

This is the latest exchange of emails with the Judicial Greffe trying to establish the currect procedures to be followed with regard to Social Security ( and Employment) Tribunals that take place in the building behind the Ann Summers Shop in Bath Street.

As more and more people become unemployed it is essential that clarity and ease of access for the public must be paramount. There cannot be any secrets in making decisions.

Where confidential matters are discussed and the public has to be excluded then redacted written decisions must be made available so that we can all know that the laws and policies are properly administered.

SSTAG is not satisfied with the answers so far received and we have spoken with the Assistant Minister at Social Security - Deputy Pinel - about this and will continue to press for fuller disclosure of information - as we will with regard to ALL decisions made at the La Motte HQ of the Social Services Deprtment.

As always we invite anybody with experiences - good or bad-  to contact us so that we can build up a full picture and we also invite any States Members to make contact with us too. We are trying to solve problems - not create them.

The emails below start with the most recent reply  a few days ago from the Judicial Greffe (which deals with such matters for the Social Security Department and the Tribunal);

Dear Mr Dun

Further to our recent correspondence I have detailed below the procedure followed in the Social Security Tribunal and the Income Support Medical Appeal Tribunal for the publication of lists of hearings, sittings in public and the publication of decisions.  The procedure is the same for both Tribunals as although they are governed by separate Orders the Orders themselves are very similar.  I have hyperlinked these to enable you to refer to them as you go through this email

I have discussed this matter with and copied this email to the Depuy Judicial Greffier.

The relevant Orders for each Tribunal do not specify that the details of hearings should be published prior to the hearing taking place, only that the hearings are in public.  Up until the present time these details have not been published anywhere.  However, this is not to say that we will are not willing to publish the lists, only that it has not previously been done and with that in mind we are in the process of developing the Court Service website, part of which will be a section for the Tribunals Service, once this is up and running the lists of hearings will be available on this site. 

Looking now at the question of hearings in public or private both Part 7 of the  Income Support (General Provisions)(Jersey) Order 2008, which covers the Income Support Medical Appeal Tribunal, and Part 4 of the Social Security (Determination of Claims and Questions)(Jersey) Order 1974 which covers the Social Security Tribunal state that :

“The Tribunal shall sit in public unless the Tribunal considers it necessary to sit in private”

The presumption is that the hearing is in public and the decision on whether or not it is necessary for a hearing to be in private is in the hands of the Tribunal.  The Tribunal’s approach to applications for sitting in private are as follows:-

The Registrar will remind the appellant when they arrive that the hearing is in public.  If the appellant is concerned about this the Registrar will inform them that  they can, if they wish make an application to the Tribunal immediately prior to the start of proceedings for the matter to be heard in private.

If there is likely to be an application the Registrar will pass this information to the Tribunal panel in advance of the hearing in order that the panel are aware that such an application will or may be made. 

The Tribunal will convene the Chairman will ask if there are any applications to be made prior to the hearing commencing.  The application will be heard in open forum and the panel will decide on the basis of the reasons put before them by the applicant and the nature of the substantive matter whether or not to grant the application. Once the decision and if it is for a private hearing any members of the public and /or press present will be asked to leave the Tribunal room.

On the question of the publication of decisions; the relevant Orders for both Tribunals state that the decision of the majority of members of the Tribunal shall be the decision of the Tribunal and that a written record of the decision signed by the Chairman or Deputy Chairman,  which includes the names of the panel members, the reasons for the decision and records any dissenting opinion, shall be distributed by the Registrar to the parties as soon as is practicable after the hearing has taken place.  There is no statutory requirement for these decisions to be published and at the moment there are no plans to do so. 

If a case has been taken to the Royal Court on appeal on a point of law then the reasoned judgment for that appeal will be published on the Jersey Law website,

Finally the relevant Orders for each Tribunal contain the provision that each Tribunal may regulate its own procedure.  The information I have detailed above is the procedure followed by these Tribunals where public hearings and the publication of decisions and reasons are concerned.  These are not “make it up as we go along” procedures and they will be published on the website once it is up and running.

I hope I have answered your queries but if you require any further information please email me.

Yours sincerely

Assistant Judicial Greffier 

From: Mike Dun Sent: 09 January 2013 10:00
Subject: Re: re Social Security Tribunals

Dear Mrs .......Thanks for the preliminary further information but I think we are heading fior a very dark hole of secrecy here.

For the record it must be stated that such tribunals are outside the heirarchy of the courts system and have been subject to review and reform in other places such as the UK (notably following Legatt).

Even UK Family Court rules have been relaxed to allow public access and reporting in some cases.

Just because a matter involves children is not automatically a reason for hearings to be in secret. Access to decisions etc are also in this category.

Of course, we are not in the UK and I would want to receive clarification based upon rules, regulation or policies that specifically apply in and have been sanctioned within Jersey.

I do not expect to receive the usual "make it up as we go along" approach just borrowing bits of practice that seem to suit the moment.

I can only repeat that these tribunals should take place in public for very good reasons which have already been outlined.

I note that you do not anticipate responding fully before the next hearing but I can confirm my intention of attending tomorrow's hearing and if necessary will raise the matter directly with the tribunal's chairperson.

Regards

Mike Dun

----- Original Message -----

To: 'Mike Dun'

Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2013 9:13 AM

Subject: RE: re Social Security Tribunals

Dear Mr Dun

I have been informed by the Registrar that tomorrow’s hearing involves a minor – I am checking with the Chairman of the Tribunal but I expect this hearing to be held in private – it is Court policy that all hearings involving children are held in private and there is no reason for Tribunals to be different.

I will confirm by email as soon as I have a reply from the Chairman.  I will also be sending a detailed reply to your previous email in the next 48 hours.

Yours sincerely

Assistant Judicial Greffier 

From: Mike Dun Sent: 08 January 2013 23:57
Subject: re Social Security Tribunals

Further to my previous I write to confirm that I plan to attend as a member of the public for the scheduled hearing re ...... on Thursday 10 January.

I hope that this might proceed as planned in public.

Regards

Mike Dun 

PS
We have continued to try to attend as many Employment Tribunal Hearings as possible but several have been cancelled at very short notice and one very interesting one was put on without any notice at all. This hearing was duly adjourned and we have asked to be advised when it will resume because it raised some very important issues reaching way beyond Employment law and procedure.

Another hearing put on at short notice took place on Thursday so far as is known but details are awaited.
We called into the JET office (upstairs behind the Ann Summers shop) on Friday to ask if the list of hearings for February was available.
The answer was somewhat vague but it now transpires that a notice will be stuck on the JET door at midday on a Friday so that the general public might discover what hearings are due!

Could we have a copy - NO! we must look at the notice stuck on the door.
So we checked and there was a tiny notice advising of just two scheduled Employment hearings for the first week of February (Monday and Thursday). This is the new system until JET can update its IT system!
So there you are general public - if you want to know what is going on - then get yourself outside the JET after midday on a Friday...

The notice offers the tel number 630291 to 'phone for updates. Try it and let us know how you get on.

Of course, there is nothing at all about Social Security hearings, which according to the rules are also supposed to take place in public - although we have been thrown out of both those that we attempted to attend so far.
None are scheduled for February apparently - so all those thousands of people claiming Income Support etc at the Social Security Departnent must be content with their decisions. This is contrary to what we hear on the street so we find this puzzling...

PPS
We also hear that the Hospital is now demanding the most extraordinary information from seriously ill  and aged patients  before they will treat them!!!
If you have received one of the latest letters demanding that you prove whether you have paid your SS contributions, income tax etc and have housing quals or to produce copies of your bank statements - do let us know. We should very much like to publish a  suitably redacted copy on this SSTAG blog site...

More information - who needs to know....?

The New Year had started promisingly on the information front.

Not only did we have assurances that information about Court hearings would be put on the Internet – along with details of other tribunals – but other reforms were also to be implemented.

Most important was that the Judicial Greffe issued to us a list of Social Security and Employment Tribunal hearing planned for January 2013.

These are supposed to be public hearings but details have never previously been published beforehand – making it virtually impossible for the public or the press to attend and report on what happens.

Obviously, as with all tribunals and court hearing, it is not only important that justice is done but it must be seen (and heard) to be done.

True justice cannot be delivered in secret.

Obviously there are some matters which parties might prefer to keep confidential in any dispute that goes before a court or tribunal and some cases with regard to children are especially sensitive. But just because a litigant might not want to have their details made public – this is not a reason to hold hearings in secret as a general rule.

Social Security matters are of course especially sensitive for some people but this is usually about the administration of public funds or facilities and the need for the general public to know that such matters are handled properly is especially important.

It is also important that other applicants for Social Security benefits (such as Income Support) can know how other people have been treated. It is most important that the precedents of previous decisions are published and constantly monitored to ensure that fairness runs throughout the system for all.

What’s fit for the goose is fit for the gander etc….

So we ( two members of the public including this SSTAG supporter) duly attended at the Jersey Employment Tribunal offices (1st floor behind the Ann Summers shop in Bath Street) at 1.45pm in time (as advised in advance) for the Social Security Public hearing scheduled for 2.00pm on Monday 7 January.

We had e-mailed to confirm that we intended to attend

This was to be the first SS hearing so far as we know to be actually held “in public”.

The named applicant (a wheelchair user who we call Mrs X) her husband and Deputy Rod Bryans arrived in the meeting room at about 2.10pm and the Chairperson Advocate E. Miller introduced everybody present. Her panel consisted of a Mr Moullin and Doctor Loane.

There were two officers from the Social Security Department seated at a desk plus another seated in the public seats along with yours truly.

Unfortunately, the Chair then advised us that since the applicant wanted to raise personal matters she would prefer that members of the public were not present. Without any discussion on this point we the (two) members of the general public (and/or SSTAG) were then requested to leave - which we did.

Before departing I suggested to the Chair that such a decision should at least have been canvassed in advance so as to avoid wasting public time. Also that it seems to be a matter that needs a more thought out policy and that details of the eventual hearing and decision should be published in the public interest.

This is another matter previously raised.

Deputy Bryans said nothing.

We have contacted the Assistant Judicial Greffier following this experience and await her promised e-mail response. We will publish further details here.

Today, Tuesday 8 January, an Employment Tribunal Hearing is taking place in the same venue from 9.30am re Sonia Seijas v Planet Catering.

This is open to the public as such Employment hearings generally are (though not advertised) and we will report on any interesting matters that arise in due course.

So one step forward and one back on the information front and anybody wanting to have some of the mysteries of the Social Security Department bureaucracy revealed must wait a bit longer….

Perhaps a States Member will ask a few questions?